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#1

Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 19.06.2012 17:15
von Jim • 5 Beiträge

[img]Hallo Forum,

Als ein Schotte der schonlange in Österreich lebt, kann ich Deutsch zwar sehr gut lesen, aber nicht so gut schreiben. Ich hoffe es ist okay wenn ich weiterhin auf Englisch schreibe, aber Antworten auf Deutsch zu bekommen ist überhaupt kein Problem. (Es würde mir gerade bei Deutsch geholfen!)

I am normally involved with moth caterpillars, and I have been asked to do a small insect identification project with teenagers in July. Therefore I am trying to get my eye in on different groups (Wanzen, Käfer, Spinnen usw.) as fast as possible.

Last Friday by Raglitz NÖ, I caught 7 species, 4 of which I am confident with; Metrioptera bicolor, Euthystira brachyptera, Decticus verrucivorus, Tettigonia viridissima.

However the following 3 are giving me problems
1. Plumpschrecke larva?
2. Omocestus od. Stenobothrus sp. (larva?)
3. Braun?

Any identification help and points to look for in future would be appreciated.

Best regards

Jim

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#2

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 19.06.2012 22:14
von hospiton • 2.720 Beiträge

Hallo & welcome Jim!

1: Leptophyes albovittata
2: ?? Evtl. Chorthippus?
3: sollte Chrysocharon dispar sein

LG

Werner


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#3

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 21.06.2012 10:21
von Günther • 2.336 Beiträge

Hi Jim!

Nr. 2 might be a larva of Stenobothrus lineatus.

Best regards,
Günther

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#4

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 21.06.2012 10:30
von Jim • 5 Beiträge

Danke Werner,

Some questions;

1. Is there another larva that looks similar in this stage, or if I find one like this again can I be certain on identification?
2. Should I have photographed from a different angle to help identification? What do I need to look for the next time?
3. I accept this, as on cross checking I see green in the body colour. The book I have suggests only green on male, but I have caterpillar books that say similar things like that too about caterpillars, which are not fully correct!!

Nochmals vielen dank

Jim

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#5

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 21.06.2012 11:43
von Günther • 2.336 Beiträge

Hi Jim,

I try to give some answers.

1. We have 3 species of the genus Leptophyes here in Austria. Two of them (L. albovittata and L. boscii) look very similar in early larva-stages, we still haven´t found reliable features for sure identification (but are working on it). In later stages the identification is much more easier - and definately sure in case of adult individuals. So concerning early larvae, the location of the finding is important (in the area of Raglitz albovittata is the most likely one (and in general the most common one).

2. The best possibility for identifying locusts and partly crickets by means of photographs are lateral pictures. There are just a few exceptions, for instance cave crickets.

3. As you´ve pointed out, male individuals of Ch. dispar are normally greenish. I didn´t know that there also exist bright brownish ones, but as we see nothing is impossible. Perhaps it is a "freshly baked" male, or just a variation in colour? In femals of the closely related and also mostly green Euthystira brachyptera brownish individuals aren´t rare.

Hope I could help you a little bit.

Kind regards,
Günther


zuletzt bearbeitet 21.06.2012 11:44 | nach oben springen

#6

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 21.06.2012 12:10
von Jim • 5 Beiträge

Hallo Günther,

Thank you for your reply, however according to literature I have read " the apple does not fall far from the stem" in the last stadiums. Stenobothrus lineatus, if I may say so, (as much as a beginner I am) seems a long way from "the stem" with the photo material I have been able to cross reference.

My experience with insects to date is that there can be radical changes between stadiums, or strong pattern variation within a species, so I am interested here to learn why you suggest this sp..

In my first attempts to ID this one, one of the closest I could get was Omocestus haemorrhoidalis, and that by looking at a photo in www. Orthoptera.at artenliste. My deduction for such a choice I will show in the following photo
[[File:Omocestus cf haemorrhoidalis.JPG|none|auto]]

However I recognise the similar traits (Merkmalen) from Chorthippus spp. which I also checked before I entered this online, and it doesn't surprise me Werner mentions them as possible. I just got fixed on the other two groups (Stno. and Omo.) with my question!

Best regards

Jim

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#7

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 21.06.2012 12:13
von Jim • 5 Beiträge



Hope that shows the photo now!

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#8

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 21.06.2012 18:42
von Günther • 2.336 Beiträge

Hi Jim!

It´s really hard for me to explain, why I think it´s a Stenobothrus lineatus - especially in English (in school English was my horror-subject, besides mathematics!), because it´s just an assumption.
It´s the general habitus, the characteristics of the two lines on the pronotum - in my opinion this doesn´t fit neither with Omocestus nor with Chorthippus. It wouldn´t be a problem, if the picture would show an adult individual. But larvae are really hard to determine!
We have a term for such a "feeling" of a determination, you might probably associate with something different - it´s called "Jizz". I don´t really know where it comes from in this regard, but it means: one assumes something without argumentation why, just intuition. But perhaps it´s a wrong intuition, I don´t want to exclude this case (so perhaps I better would have written "this COULD be S. lineatus" instead of "this MIGHT be S. lineatus". I think, it was a language problem)..

But apart from that: Grasshoppers EXTREMELY differ in colouration and drawing - also within a single species!! So I think, the traits (thanks for the correction!) in your attached picture can´t really be considered as a reliable indication!

Sorry for my bad English, I´ve done my best..

Best regards,
Günther


zuletzt bearbeitet 21.06.2012 22:07 | nach oben springen

#9

RE: Anfänger braucht hilfe!

in Bestimmungsfragen 25.06.2012 10:36
von Jim • 5 Beiträge

Hello Günther,

I love the film 'Lost in translation', I now understand what you mean here, French was my horror subject, and 30 yrs ago they did not let me near German as a subject!!

I have just read on how to rear larvae so that photo documentation can be done. As I do similar work with caterpillars, I might give this a try, as I could combine it with my other population dynamic studies.

Is anyone already doing this type of work in the Wiener Becken eg. documenting the local variations etc.?

Best regards

Jim

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